Andy McNeill Good afternoon, I'm Andy McNeill, and I'm here with Aaron Pilkington and my host, Matt Duffield. Matt, how you doing today?
Rep. Matt Duffield Good. That's co-host, Andy.
Andy McNeill Co-host. Sorry.
Rep. Matt Duffield Don't sell yourself short.
Andy McNeill And so, Matt, the session just ended. Did you get a good night's sleep?
Rep. Matt Duffield I slept pretty well. Hey, I'm so glad you came on, Aaron. Always good to see you and your head full of hair. Man, Andy, I mean, look at this hair.
Andy McNeill If I had hair like that, Aaron, I'd grow it long. If you happen to be watching this live, I've got a hat, but I mainly do it because I got a bald head that just reflects.
Rep. Matt Duffield Well, hey, Andy, let me say this about our friend Aaron here. It wasn't the last day of session, I guess, which would have been yesterday, but the day before. We're in the chamber and I see Aaron who, and we can get into this later, I don't know how many bills you ran, but I commended you in person. I'll commend you again on how hard you worked. And it was ridiculous. I mean, if there was a hardest worker award in the House, I'm serious, I think Representative Pilkington, he would be my nominee for this.
But we were in there and I look over. We had been in the chamber for an hour, hour and a half. And I look at Aaron and he looks like he hasn't slept for about a month. He's usually-- you know, I try to keep my beard fairly whatever, and at that time he had a beard. And I looked over and it looked like he hadn't shaved in a week, and he was just like laid back like that during this session. And I said, man, I'm glad this thing is wrapping up because I think Pilkington is about spent. I actually sent him a picture in there messing with him. But I'm so glad you're on here, Aaron.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Matt, so that picture you took of me, anytime someone would ask me, 'Hey, how's session going?', I would just send them that picture. So they were like, okay, message received.
Andy McNeill Well, let me just quickly introduce. We're Free Arkansas podcast and it's the free-flowing thought of ideas. And really the central themes here are we want to make Arkansas a better place. And so what we want look at is where do we rank on different things around the state, good and bad. And what can we do over a period of time to make it better for a place that we all love? And that's really the heart of it. You can go look at all of the rankings that we talk about on FreeArkansas.com and then please post anything that you want to post about us. We take all the criticism you can dish out, anything good or bad we will accept.
And we're super happy today to have Representative Aaron Pilkington who represents Clarksville and maybe more. I'm not actually sure. Aaron, why don't you give us a quick introduction? I know a little bit about you, but just fill us in.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah. So I'm State Representative Aaron Pilkington. I represent District 45. So that's all Johnson County, Lamar, Clarksville, Knoxville, where I live, Coal Hill, Hartman, Hunt, Harmony, Oark, you name it. So and then I got a little bit of Pope County too. So I've got London and Augsburg, and then, I've got a very little, small bit of Russellville. I don't even think it's technically city limits, but I've a couple of Russellville addresses, so I kind of creep over there into Duffield's neck of the woods.
Andy McNeill I did not know that. So you guys are like representative neighbors.
Rep. Matt Duffield Yes, very much so. And Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong, but the nuclear plant is in your district, correct?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yes. Yeah. So actually, yeah, a lot of people who actually probably live in Duffield's district work in my district at ANO. So yeah, so I've got Nuclear One. So I like to brag I'm the only rep with a nuclear plant in their district.
Andy McNeill That's pretty awesome. And we're coming to you from God's country, aka, Russellville, Arkansas, but I would actually sort of include Clarksville in that because it feels like it's just next door. I feel like Augsburg is right around the corner from here. Okay, it's over. I'm curious from both of you, highs and lows from, I mean, it could be anything on the highs and low, but I'm just particularly interested as well in bills that you thought, I'm super happy that passed or I'm super either disappointed that that didn't pass or maybe I'm really happy it didn't past. I don't know. Can you just give us a quick synopsis?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Well, yeah, I'll go first. I mean, obviously, Healthy Moms, Healthy Babies, that was a big piece of legislation that I was able to get through. It was part of the governor's agenda. She talks about it at her press conference wrapping up. And then even I saw she put out a graphic of her 10 big achievements this session, and that was one of them. So really happy to see that. I'm sure we can kind of get into more of that later.
So that was a big high getting that done and kind of bringing everyone along with us on that. Because that's just something, whether you're Democrat or Republican, everyone could kind of agree on that bill. And so I was really excited to kind of get that bipartisan support. And even actually, I mean, John Brummett was on Roby Brock the other day and was praising it. And I thought, I think that's the first time I've probably ever gotten a compliment from John Brummett.
Andy McNeill That's awesome. And what exactly does that do?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, so it is a kind of an omnibus piece of legislation. So it does a couple of things. So we're raising our Medicaid reimbursement rates for maternal health. It's about $45 million in total that's going towards that. So that's gonna help our labor and delivery units, which you've seen a few shut down around the state. We did Medicaid coverage for gestational diabetes with CGMs, which we were one of the first states in the nation to do that. So that is really big.
I mean, obviously a lot of weight issues are around the maternal health outcomes that we have. Remote patient monitoring when it comes to blood pressure cuffs for new mothers and postpartum moms. We created community health workers. We kind of established their licensure as well as a doulas. So those are two kind of new categories in Arkansas that we're now allowing Medicaid coverage for, getting them kind of in the fold to not only help women transition their coverage after that 60 days, but even beforehand. And then of course, presumptive eligibility, which is huge. So, when you think you qualify for Medicaid, but you're not sure, and it's a long paperwork process, still being able to go to the doctor and use presumption of eligibility to be seen. That's big. And that was one of those things, honestly, I never thought I'd see us do in Arkansas. But we did, so that's great.
There's a little bit of tort protection in there, too, for tailing insurance, and that was really just there to help some of these providers who've retired. You still have hospitals covering the costs of retired physicians. And so we scaled that back a little bit, didn't get away from it, just kind of took an average around other states. That kind of also helped reduce the burden for hospitals in keeping these labor and delivery units open.
So that's kind of the high 35,000 foot view. There's probably some other stuff in there I'm missing because I've slept and run a lot of bills since then. But it's a good piece of legislation and it's kind of delving into some big issues and in a lot of ways, too, just getting us really hyper focused on this area that we need to fix.
Andy McNeill So what was the low?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington I mean, obviously I wanted to get 12 month expansion passed for that 138. I mean not getting that passed was, it was a mix of a high and a low. I mean we got it out of the House. I was like, yeah, we got some momentum and we're going. And then we hit a stone wall in the Senate. So that was a low, but one of the things I tell a lot of people, because a lot people came to me like, hey man, how are you feeling, I know you cared a lot about that issue. And I do. But it's one of those deals, I left everything on the table when it came to that.
I mean, I took the concerns I heard from members from the governor's office, from everyone, and tried to fix that bill and make it as palatable as possible. You ran it as hard as you could. There's nothing that I look back and say, man, I wish I would've done that differently because I could've got it done. We could have got it passed had I not done X, Y, Z. I don't see that at all. And so when you just kind of leave it out on the field, for a lack of a better word, you're sad, but at least you know you did everything you could. I mean, obviously, that was a low for me.
Andy McNeill And I want to come back to that particular bill. Matt, tell me your highs and lows.
Rep. Matt Duffield Well, let me just interject here. Aaron, I wasn't sure. I looked at my seniority sheet. So was this your fifth term?
Andy McNeill You know, I should have asked you that. I was thinking that a little earlier.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington So, yeah, it's my fifth term.
Rep. Matt Duffield I guess a question I would have for you, because this was just my second term, now that the dust has settled, how did your fifth term compare with the other terms? I mean, just as an overall, maybe general, however you want to answer that.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, it's hard to tell. I tell everyone, I think your second term is your worst term because it's like you now know enough to know to be disappointed, whereas your first term, you're just kind of happy to be there. Like your second time, you're really trying to push and move the needle and get things done. And then you just hit brick wall after brick wall. And so actually a lot of sophomore members this time, I around always go, hey, guess what, this is probably gonna be your worst term. And so if you felt like that way, it's okay.
Because guess what, your third and fourth are gonna be awesome. My fifth, I mean, yeah, I feel really good about it. I mean there's a lot of things, I'll put it this way, I did everything I wanted to accomplish. There were some things that I was helping with that didn't get accomplished that I wish I would have done better at, but all in all, I think it was a good session and I'm pretty happy with it. And I think too, you kind of learn something every session, even being a fifth-termer. Some of the things, too, I've thought about is I need to do a little better job of-- I get off on these weird paths with things. And I'll run a piece of legislation and people are like, where did that come from?
And so I think I need to do a better job talking to my members in the interim and be like, hey, I know this sounds kind of weird right now, so don't wait till I've got the bill. Let's talk about it now. Because that's always been something I always try to do to find kind of things that people aren't really talking about that need to be fixed. I mean, obviously the data centers, I think we'll talk about that later, but that was one, like two years ago, I brought up and people were like, what is this? Now we were talking it about nonstop all session. So it's like, I wish I would have brought members along earlier so we could be more proactive. And that's kind of a lesson I think I'll learn this session.
Andy McNeill So, Matt, what's your high, low?
Rep. Matt Duffield I think, well, it's getting a lot of press today, but we passed a bill that created the death penalty for those who rape a child under the age of 13. And that was some legislation that I originally was very interested in trying take the lead on. And RepresentativeJeremiah Moore took the lead on that, and I was a co-sponsor on that. He really worked hard to cross all of his T's and dot all of his I's to make sure that the Attorney General's Office reviewed it and made sure that it was good to go.
The reviews that I've seen from the taxpayers across the state, they were highly, highly supportive of that. So, as far as one bill that I saw, I wasn't the lead sponsor on it, but I worked with Representative Moore on that. I think that was the high as far that.
As bills I took the lead on, here locally, it was a smaller bill. I think all policy has its own importance in its own ways, but we upped the sale of the fireworks by a week. And so that was something that the Russellville City Council wanted so they could get those. And I think that's good. That's going to help local fireworks salespeople across the state and help put more money in their pockets and help put more money in the communities as a result of that.
And then, I had also had a bill that prohibited registered level three and for sex offenders from coming within 100 feet of a public splash pad, pool. That received a lot of support. I got that through early on in the session. The Hot Springs Village law enforcement, they came up in support of that. They'd had a real issue with a creep down there. And so I think that solved a problem. And the county sheriff's office brought that to me a year or two ago, brought that to my attention. So I think that was a good one. And it's like I said, Andy, and I think Representative Pilkington is the same way. Our goal is to create policy that solves problems and not create more. And that's the goal at the end of the day for myself.
Andy McNeill You know, Aaron, I'm curious if this is a difference. And I could be wrong on this. I don't actually have this sitting in front of me. Is there new leadership in the House who runs the House this session versus the sessions before? And I'm curious how to compare and contrast that. Is that something that you down there can feel the difference? Or is it like, no, it doesn't really matter who's in charge, it sort of feels the same?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington No, it's massively different. And so this is my third speaker. I started out with Jeremy Gillam. We had Matt Shepherd for three terms. And then we had Brian Evans, who's the new one now. And it was. It was less contentious. And so that was kind of really, I think, a really good part. And it's actually funny, too, because I joked with Shepherd. I was like, man, we're getting along the best we've ever gotten along with, man. Now that you're not in leadership, we're buds. It was funny.
Andy McNeill Is he still there or did he term out?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington No, he's still there. I was kind of shocked when he said he wasn't gonna run for speaker again. And then he's like, no, but I'm still gonna run for state rep. I'm like, wow, you went from being the most powerful guy in the room to just like chillin' out in the back.
Andy McNeill Yeah, because if you're the speaker, you get to decide what hits the floor, is that right?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Well, kind of. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of power in that position. And then, of course, a lot of deference, I think, members give the speaker. You get to be in the room. I mean there's negotiations that go in between the House and the Senate and the Governor's office and you get be that one guy in that room of three people. And it wasn't a contentious speaker's race, either, the way it had been in the past.
And I think because of that, it wasn't as factional. So like the first time I came in, Jeremy Gilman was speaker, then it was a big race between Andy Davis and Matt Shepherd. And it was very contentious and very tight. And even that, there were ripple effects that had kind of occurred. And so luckily, it's felt very healed. And that was a conversation I had a lot with Speaker Evans and stuff. I was like, Hey, you're going to basically walk into this. And I think a lot of people are kind of looking for a reset, and so let's try to do that the best we can. And I think he did a really good job of accomplishing that and helping out. And it was way less contentious than it did in the past, which is good. And that's something you want to see. And you want to see people getting along for the most part. There's still, I mean, trust me, there's a lot of choice words people I'm sure have about me.
Andy McNeill What do you think, Matt? I don't know if you have the same five terms, but like, does it feel different?
Andy McNeill Andy, one thing you'll find interesting, and we've had these discussions, and I'd like to get Rep. Pilkington's opinion on this. There's not, in my view, a right or wrong answer. So Andy, when we elect a speaker in the House, it's a private ballot vote. And every session there's a discussion, well, should it be a public vote on the board how you vote for speaker. And there's pros and cons to that. But I've found that interesting since I've been down there.
You know, Rep Pilkington, what's your view on that? Do you think in the future when we elect a speaker, should it be the private ballot like it's been, or should it a public vote on the board? Or what's your view?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington I always think it should be public. You know, there's a joke, everyone walks in with 60 votes for speaker. And so there's lot of people who will say, oh yeah, I'm with you, and then tell the other guy they're with you. So it's funny, you'll talk to each candidate, and they're like, oh, yeah, so and so is with me. And it's like, I don't think they are.
And so, to me, I just think it just keeps people honest about who they're supporting and who they are not. And so, some people say, well, I fear I might get retribution from the speaker. And then they'll say, you know, oh, well it should be private because that doesn't happen anyway. It's like, well, if it doesn't happen anyway, then why do you care? So I, to me, I think it's great to know. And I think there was a really contentious speaker's race back when the Republicans first took the majority.
And so that has always had ripple effects. And that's always been kind of part of the conversation. But, like I said, to me, I've been like, people can come up and ask me on the street who I voted for for speaker every speaker election and I'll tell you. I don't need to keep it a secret because I'm always pretty vocal about where I stand on issues. So same on things like this.
So but some people, it's an awkward position because you've got two people you like and you're friends with and you have to pick one or the other. To me at the end of the day, it's better to be honest with people. And I'm pretty up front. And they may want to put you in a camp because you don't support them or you do support them. But I'd rather just be an honest broker about things than people say, well, did he lie to me? Did he not?
Andy McNeill You know, I have a question for you guys. And then I want to go through a handful of bills just to kind of get your opinions on them. I should know this number off the top of my head, but you guys do have a super majority, is that correct?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yes, sir.
Andy McNeill Yeah, so does that mean that you don't even have to deal with the Democrats? Or no, they become-- I mean, if you can't stop anything, what's their role other than having a resistance to something or just to counter arguments to things?
Rep. Matt Duffield So Andy, on the outside looking in, you would think that would mean they would have no influence. And in my opinion, that is far from the case. And you say, well, why is that? Well, the reason is the way the committee selection process works. So for example, there was a bill that I presented this session in the judiciary committee. Well, there are five Democrats on that committee.
And as the process goes forward and people are in different places running bills, that particular day, I knew that I didn't have the votes to get this piece of legislation through because there were several members of that committee that were not in the seat. So they absolutely can have some influence when it comes to your bills in the committees, the way that process works. That's how I see it, Aaron.
Andy McNeill Well, I'm assuming most of it, a lot of what you guys are doing is kind of bipartisan anyway, right? Or is it always partisan?
Rep. Matt Duffield It doesn't necessarily, Andy, it's not necessarily if it's a quote, hard Republican or hard Democrat issue, there's so much legislation that we take on that, or that we look at, it's not necessarily what you would see as a national Republican or Democrat issue. So there's different views from both sides of the aisle.
Andy McNeill I mean, extending the fireworks sales for five days has nothing to do with any platform of a political party. I mean let's just be honest. We're just going to sell fireworks for five more days, right? And I can imagine on the expansion to include more services within Medicaid, that's an issue that is also probably nonpartisan. My guess is on something like that it really comes down to people that just either are really fiscally conservative that say, we just don't want to spend any more money. It sounds like a great plan, but look, we're tapped out.
So Aaron, I'm curious, I know you didn't mention it as a low, but it looks like on the bill related to medical marijuana allowing a drive-through service for folks that are disabled, et cetera, is it surprising? I mean I know you said it was surprising but is there a reason they just didn't give you word early on, like, hey, we're not going to support that?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington You know, I don't know. One thing I think about is maybe at the end of session, things were moving really fast. Of course, this one actually was kind of before all that craziness of session was moving. So I don’t know if it was just one that was not one that they looked into or had any concerns. Because usually they're pretty good about saying, you even file a bill and they'll call you and say hey, we were reviewing this and our department has concerns about XYZ. So I'm kind of shocked.
So I would say that's kind of part of the shock or reason why. There's been other times I've had bills before signing where I'll get a call and they'll say, Hey, we've got some questions about this, can you answer it. And you'd answer the question. They'll go, Yeah, we're good with it Okay, cool. And then you know the next day the bill is signed into law. So it was a little bit just because the call was like, Hey, we're vetoing it. And it's like, Can I talk to you about it? Nope. You're like, all right.
Andy McNeill Did you have enough votes? I assume it's super difficult once the governor says no to go back and rerun it. You'd have to have a lot of momentum and time, right?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah. And then even on the override, you know, I've had a few people ask me about that. And I even had someone this morning call me go, man, I think you should run and override it. And I was like, well, I was, like, here's the reality. Asa had, I think it was my first term or second term, it was first term. He had vetoed a bill that got like 94 yea votes.
And I actually remember I was one of the no votes on it out of four no votes there were. And he vetoes it and it goes back and I was like, yeah, I'm sure we're going to override this because 94 people voted for it, thought it was good legislation, and then totally failed on the override. And so, I was just like, look, I stayed consistent. I was no the whole time. And so to me, to see something like that, it was a little different during COVID. I think we overrode some vetoes he had back then.
But different times, different scenario. But this is way more like back then in that 2017 session, you know? So I just kind of think there's just not a momentum to do it. And you've got a lot of members who just, they don't want to touch weed, and they want to do it. And her reasoning of saying it's going to expand usage, I was like, I don't see that, because we're not expanding cards, we're not expanding how much you can have, so I don't really understand that. But it's their opinion, and that's part of the process.
Andy McNeill Yeah, of course. I know that for me, I look at it and to me, it sounds really simple, right? I have a view that's a little bit more libertarian where I'd rather have less rules than more rules. So I look it and say, gee whiz, if you're handicapped and you got to park your car and go in, what's the difference if you drive through?
Rep. Matt Duffield And Andy, I think it'd be good for the listeners if we could kind of tell the story on this bill and Misty can give us the bill number and all that. But Aaron, if I recall, you originated the bill in the House. That was correct, right?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, I went through Rules.
Rep. Matt Duffield And so I'm on Rules and I remember I voted for it, but I don't recall it being a huge discussion on that bill in Rules. Can you kind of tell the story about how it went on the committee end of it? Because I don't recall it being a very contentious bill.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington No, it wasn't. It was one of those bills you file and if it goes to Rules, you just know your phone is going to start ringing. But it honestly didn't in that one. There was a lot of support from the industry behind it. But even the opposition, especially marijuana that you see out of other groups, it just never came. And even when I ran the bill on the floor, no one spoke against it. I think it got 51 votes and then I can't remember how many no votes, but there was also a ton of people who just didn't vote. They're just like, hey, there's nothing wrong with the bill, I just don't want to vote for a marijuana bill.
Andy McNeill It was 51 to 31.
Rep. Matt Duffield Here's the stats here. HB 1889 in the House. It was on April 2. It passed with a vote of 51 to 31. And then in the Senate, it passed with the vote of 19 to 15. So if my math is correct, in both chambers, it passed by one vote. So it was a narrow vote in the chambers. But I just, I remember, I recall being on Rules, and to your point, Aaron, you ran that bill fairly early in session, as I recall. I mean, it was, what, a month or month and a half or so in, I think.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, it was pretty early when we first got it. And so, yeah, it's one of those deals where, like I said, too, I don't think anyone spoke against it. I don't know in the Senate. But, it was kind of one of us like, yeah, people kind of are iffy about marijuana bills. But nobody was like banging their chest, let's beat this bill, it's terrible. Especially because, you know, a lot of it was kind of just based off of some things that had happened during Covid.
And so we were like, Hey, we didn't have any problems during COVID. Why are we not doing this to the drive-through part? And I even said to, I can't remember which reporter, but I was like, I wish they would have told me if there was a specific issue. Because the bill did three things, and if there is one particular part they didn't like, but we could have kept the other two, I would have gladly made an amendment or something like that just do something to help these patients.
And even if they said, well, we'll let you drive through, but it's only for people with handicap placards. Okay. We could have done that. But it is what it is right now.
Andy McNeill I have this sort of perception that just a lot of people, it's just, they got other priorities. They don't necessarily want to get linked to it. They probably don't care, but you know, I don't know that either. And so, all right, let me ask about the Blue Envelope. This is one, Aaron, I have to say I really liked. But tell me what the so what of it is. Like how did this come about?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, so I had a constituent reach out to me actually and say, Hey, this is a program I've read about in other states, I really think Arkansas should do it. And so I started looking into it. And I was like, yeah, man, this is a simple solution to in many ways kind of complex situations. And so for those who are listening and don't know the Blue Envelope essentially is if you're an autistic driver, you're able to go to the revenue office or the DMV and get an envelope to keep your information in.
But on the envelope are printed instructions for law enforcement. So this is a non-verbal way to communicate with law enforcement that, Hey, I'm an autistic driver, I will not respond in normal ways to the situation. So it doesn't elevate the situation. Because what you'll have, and police came out and supported this as well, because they were like, we'll stop someone, they're showing anti-social behavior, we take that as this is going to escalate. They're like, no, this is just someone who is autistic and is anti-social to begin with.
And so there were some people who came and testified who had some really terrible stories of some encounters they had that were just honestly tragic. And the nice thing about these autistic individuals who came to testify is at no point were they ever upset with the police or anything like that. I mean they understood it was a situation where they were not responding the way that they should have because of their condition. So this is, like I said, easy, simple solution. It's a nonverbal way to do it. I've actually seen some early drafts of what it's gonna look like. So it's got printed instructions for the police officer that they can read and know how to handle the situation better.
Andy McNeill Did anybody vote against this? I would think this would be like--
Rep. Aaron Pilkington I don't think a single person voted against it.
Andy McNeill Everybody's seen a feed on their social media about, you know, like either way, right? Like, where a police encounter-- and I get it. If I was a police officer, I'd be a little scared sometimes, right. And I could see where I'd be like, you know what, I'm going to defend myself first and then we'll figure this out second.
I can understand that, so I think that's something that really would help people out. And I heard you did a really good job with-- I didn't see it myself. But for people that saw it, I heard a lot of good feedback about how the process worked when people were presenting and that. So it sounded like it was a big success. So congratulations on that.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington I'm really happy about it. You know, we're the first state in the South to do it. And so I hope we can kind of be the model for other states in the South to kind of take this on because there are only a few states that do. It's actually California's got a few counties that do it and there's like one or two Northeast states, but I hope it kind of catches on.
Andy McNeill It's pretty creative. All right, I'm switching gears.
Rep. Matt Duffield Hang on, Andy, on this bill. Aaron, thanks so much. Of all the legislation that you passed, I think the Blue Envelope, from my perspective, I guess, because I had a little more inside baseball on it than a lot of your medical field policy that you do. But Andy, this is such an important thing that literally can help save these people's lives.
And quick story. At the condominium I stay at in Little Rock, it was a morning and it was one of those days where you're rushing around. And I stay on the third floor. You know, typically at that time of day, nobody's around, nobody is getting on or off the elevators. So I'm standing there and I'm waiting to get on the elevator. The elevator doors open and this guy who is blaring salsa music on his phone, he tries to step out as I'm stepping in. And as he does, we collide and he steps on my foot, bruising up my toe and everything.
And I was like, dude, you know what the-- insert a few adjectives I may not should have said. And the guy, he said he was sorry, but it was just one of those awkward early morning encounters you don't really see. Well, anyway, I got a little fired up about it. I mean, I wasn't going to--
Andy McNeill Get physical, maybe.
Rep. Matt Duffield Get physical with a guy on the elevator. Anyway, but long story short, you know, the day kind of progressed. And I thought about it. I said, man, what was up with that guy? You know, I didn't know. And then I saw him around the complex later on and found out that he was autistic. And so, that was just these situations happen with people who have autism and just day to day. And what some people interpret as them being rude or perhaps aggressive, which can lead to conflict, it's not them being that at all. I mean, this is how that person is as a result of that.
So what Representative Pilkington really did is when these officers pull people over with autism and the officer may ask them a question and they may look at them stone-faced, officers can see that as aggression. With this Blue Envelope program, Andy, they hand that envelope, man, it really, really has the potential to save lives. I think it's an awesome, awesome piece of legislation.
Andy McNeill I totally get it. The handful of times I've been pulled over, the officers have been super nice. But I had it twice where I would say they were speed traps, but where the officer was really aggressive. But it deescalated really, really quick because I'm super respectful and I'm not running my mouth. And I'm just like, yeah, sorry, and I was clearly speeding. I wasn't grossly speeding. There's a spot in Menifee where you go from like 55 to 35 on this back road to Conway. I can imagine if you were autistic and didn't know how to respond, that could escalate instead of de-escalate.So congratulations on that.
On one that didn't work, give me the back story here, the so what of it on the Medicare postpartum. As I understand it, 41% of births in Arkansas are all covered in Medicaid. And I don't know, does that statistic sound right to you?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington It actually may be a little higher, but yeah, that's about right. I mean, essentially most births are Medicaid births.
Andy McNeill Which is pretty, that's an astounding statistic in my book. I mean, it tells you a lot about what the situation that a lot of people are in, whether it's 41 or 45 or even 50. So the current law is 60 days of access to medical treatment for postpartum issues, and you wanted it expanded to a year, correct?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yes, correct.
Andy McNeill And was most people's resistance just a cost issue?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, so most people would say, well, we don't want to spend the money, the cost. But granted, $2 million was the cost. And then I can't tell you how many bills we passed that were more than that. And I was like, oh, apparently we didn't have a problem on that one. But Alyssa Brown, who's a freshman, Gen Z, is my seatmate, and so I would make a lot of these comments to her. She probably was tired of hearing them. But of course, then, you know, the bill I had--
Andy McNeill You're not saying people would be hypocritical with dollars, are you? I'm just teasing.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington But yeah, and then actually, one of the things we did at the end was we amended it to where we were going to go to HHS at the federal level and ask for a specific waiver to allow us to use CHIP administrative money to pay for that $2 million. So I think there's about like $12 million in that account. So we were able to use that money to pay the state share. So it actually cost zero state dollars. So that, at the end, was kind of one of those deals where we were like, we are eliminating the last hurdle. Because at first it was duplication of services.
So then we said, well, hey, we're doing auto enrollment into ARHome. So if they need to be in that, that's a better program. It's a 90-10 match for the state, better than traditional Medicaid. And if they don't qualify for that, then we go to this other one, which is the expansion model. And then we're going to use CHIP money to pay for that. So there's literally no new state dollars on it. So that was, I mean, that was kind how we did it.
And then, of course, near the end, they try to muddy the water with this idea that somehow we were gonna end up paying for illegal aliens to be on Medicaid and get this. Because there is a current program from 2004 that allowed illegal aliens to access Medicaid for births for that 60 day period. That's a law that's been in place since 2004. And so they were kind of muddying the waters and I literally was like outside the room before the debate talking to some senators and being like, they get to write the waiver.
They can literally put in the waiver that only this expansion could go towards U.S. Citizens. I was like, so this is a red herring, this is a false flag, whatever you wanna call it, that doesn't actually matter. And I was like, they're just using it to muddy the water. But apparently it was effective enough that the senators said no.
Andy McNeill It didn't get out of the committee, right? It didn't get outta the committee in the Senate?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yes, it did not get out the committee. Yes, sir. That's a shame and I feel bad that that happened. But I did get appointed the chair of the subcommittee that oversees DHS, so we're gonna have a really fun interim with some of these claims. Looking forward to that.
Andy McNeill Matt, I don't know if you paid attention to this bill, but are there things that you would hear that would be like, okay, this is other reasons why people would oppose it other than the cost?
Rep. Matt Duffield Sure. Well, you know, I'm not on that. Did that go through Public Health?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, it went through Public Health and then the floor.
Rep. Matt Duffield Yeah, anything, not just Rep. Pilkington's bills, but anything that came up, Andy, that had anything to do with Medicaid, anything negative you'd hear or any criticisms or questions, it was always to do the money. I mean, it was that. It was typically never the intent. It was to do with that.
Andy McNeill Well, we don't have unlimited funds, so we have to pick and choose, for sure, right? So let's switch to your data centers for a second. One of the things I find really interesting about data centers is, I believe I've got this right. I don't know if this is the last session, but I believe it was the last session where you basically said, this legislature said that they didn't want Chinese companies owning data centers, which I think resulted in 10 of them that were on the market here in Arkansas, because I looked at some of them to acquire them. But I may have my legislation facts incorrect. Is that about what you would understand from the last time?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Maybe. So, I can kind of walk it back a little bit. So let me put it this way, this is actually kind of a great story how citizen legislatures kind of work. I have another job outside of here and a buddy of mine who works there says, Hey, I've got a fishing buddy from Northern Virginia. We were fishing Lake Dardanelle. And he said, man, I can't believe there's no data centers here in Arkansas.
And he goes, you know, all we need is cheap power, cheap land, and I mean, you can get a billion dollar investment into these areas because everyone's looking to get out of Northern Virginia because it's overbuilt. I just can't believe there's none here, and talking about everyone trying to move out of Northern Virginia and especially from California, because it is so expensive in those places, right? And so he asked his buddy and he was like, hey, do you know anyone in state government? And I was the only guy he knew, so he called me up.
And so I went and talked to him and go, yeah, let's do this. I got him connected with an economic developer I know, and so we started talking about it. But then the thing was, and this was last session, not this current session, they were like, man, literally first day of due diligence, they were like, whoa, Arkansas is considered like a black spot on the data center map, like don't build data centers here. And actually Walmart, when they built their billion dollar data center, they built it one mile over the line in Missouri. So they've got a billion dollar data center in Missouri that they built over there because we don't have the sales tax exemption on electricity that most states do with these data centers.
And so that was kind of the big push that year was, okay, we need to at least get ourselves off the black side map and get ourselves on there. Because, like I said, our land's relatively cheap, our power's reasonable, we've got a pretty decent workforce too. And so this is a good place to build and some power going through here. So we did that, you know, we convinced a lot of people. Some people were a little hesitant about it. So how much tax money are we getting? It's like, there's not a single data center in the state right now, mega data center, that said. These are large data centers. You've got some smaller ones. Yeah, no issue there.
And then, of course, what's funny is we wrote it to make sure that crypto wasn't involved in it because of the way it has to be a certain amount of investment, certain amount of salaries have to be to Arkansas. I think it's like a million or two million dollar salaries, which crypto mines can't produce and has to be, I think, over up $500 million investment, which is pretty huge to get this. So that's why we did it.
Of course, the funny thing too was then when all this crypto stuff started to go crazy, crypto people would call themselves data centers. And so literally the last two years, I had to fight and educate a lot of my members about, hey, guys, these things are two different things. What Amazon and what Google and Meta are building over here, these are $3 to 5 billion dollar investments. These are way different than someone who's trying to build a crypto mine over here and just mine crypto dollars. But for a lot of our members, they were unfamiliar with the concepts.
And I go, well they're calling themselves a data center, but those are not. So that was kind of a big deal the last few years. So we did that. We ran another round of bills. Because we did this, all of a sudden all these data centers started coming to Arkansas looking at land. And of course what's very aggravating, too, is we only have a session every two years. So in this interim time between the last session and this session, every state around has copied our bill, copied the Arkansas bill.
And so Mississippi got that massive Amazon data center because they were like, yeah, we're going to do the Arkansas model and make it a little bit sweeter. And then bam, they get it. And same with Alabama getting the Meta data center, too. It's actually funny, the lobbyist for Meta called me and he found out that Arkansas had lost out on that deal because his dad called and was like, hey, you'll never hear the news. The town next door is getting a Meta data center.
Once again, we had to re-up kind of how we did the structure to make it a little more enticing to some of these people. And so hopefully we'll finally get it. And then, of course, there was the power bill, too, that happened, which was really big, important to kind of track this too. Because something else in the development with the people we've been working with in Clarksville for a while is getting the power. Because we are not generating enough power right now in the United States.
And so these things take up massive amounts of power. So you've got to make sure you get power. And obviously we work in a massive grid. And for Johnson County, what's actually really troubling, and luckily in Pope, y'all don't have this issue, we're bisected by national grids. So ANO, if I build a data center in Clarksville, I can't get my power from ANO even though I have massive amounts at ANO. But yet if I built a data center in Memphis, they can get the power from ANO.
Andy McNeill That part I didn't know.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington So you can, but then you've got to pay a fee for going from one grid to the other. And so basically it de-incentivizes you. So I'm basically using power out of Texas to then help do my data center in Clarksville. And it's very interesting. But obviously generation is a huge issue coming on because I think in 2027 we're going to run out of generation in this country.
And so there's a secret, I don't know, maybe it's not that secret, but I think a lot of people don't really know this. There's a mad rush to how can we produce more energy generation because we're desperately behind where we need to be.
Andy McNeill And just to give an example, to lean into this about what I think sort of drives this. And so I'm using AI tools all the time. And I was with somebody two days ago, we're at lunch, and what they had done is taken all of their blood work for their last 25 years, put it into a folder, or I guess you might call it a prompt in ChatGPT, and basically took a picture of the menu and asked ChatGPT what to eat in that menu. I just think we're going to do way more of this instead of way less of this.
And you're right. When I looked at these data centers, just to sort of anybody listening, here's what it looks like. I mean, essentially, I locate next to a power source, let's say the nuclear plant, and I have an agreement with them to buy power over a period of time. And essentially, it looks a little bit like, or it would function a little like if you were building a storage center. So I have a building and I build all these racks, but I don't put the computers in. That's what the people that are leasing them from.
And so the ones I was looking at were Arkansas, but they were, they were smaller. And what they were doing is completely on cryptocurrency. So your customer would have been in this case, this is why we didn't do it, there was Chinese crypto mining companies that would rent out the space. And they're not interchangeable, just like you said. If you wanted an AI center, it's a little bit different.
It might seem the same, but it's a little bit different. This stuff, we're going to have more of, not less of. And so it's going to be definitely a thing I think that to drive the state, we got to get right or we're gonna get beat out by other people. There's tons of examples about where a state made good-- well, I'll give you one, like in a side note, Atlanta used to be the headquarters of all the major banking in the South. North Carolina made a few little bill changes, and that's why a lot of them just picked them up and went right to Charlotte, you know?
Okay, guys, one last question here. So if we had to give an MVP sort of award that you can't give to yourself or to each other, but somebody else who you thought did an excellent job, went the extra distance, etc, who would you say that was in this year's legislature?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington I actually would probably-- it's funny. I was joking with a group of other legislators about this. I probably would say it was Kendon Underwood out of Northwest Arkansas. He ran the grocery tax, ran a couple other just really good bills, and I just, I mean, it was like he didn't miss. There wasn't a time when I saw a single one of his bills go down in flames. He just, he took on hard issues but was just really good. He just had a great session. And so I was kind of shocked and it was actually funny. We just were laughing about that today, who we thought had a good session. I just thought, I think Kendon Underwood just had a fantastic session.
Rep. Matt Duffield My pick would be Representative Matt Brown from Conway. Matt's an attorney and Matt is so quick to help anybody with anything in regards to the drafting of bills, looking at it from a legal perspective. He was there and helped me on so many of my bills. And I know he did that with many, many others. So Matt may not get a lot of credit for it on the front end because his name may not be there, but Andy, he played an instrumental role in some really good policy that otherwise I don't know if it would have made it over the finish line. So, my pick would be Representative Matt Brown would be mine.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, Matt is amazing.
Andy McNeill But I have to ask, because I just find it really interesting, tell me about the Gulf of America. I mean, is it just like you love Trump and you want to lean into that? Tell me why. And I know it's a resolution.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, it was so funny. I mean, I did not think that would blow up the way it did. It was kind of a little bit tongue in cheek. I think one thing I would say is like, hey, if our feds are going to do it, we should follow suit. We passed a bill requiring us to rename how we refer to the West Bank and nobody seemed to care about that at all.
Andy McNeill I didn't know that.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I literally was like, I was looking around like, this is an actual bill that requires something and says a word. I do a non-binding resolution and people lose their minds. But no, it was just was one of those, I just thought good way to just say, hey, we're with it, let's just show some support for President Trump and what he wants to do. It's a resolution. It's non-binding. But some people, I mean, really like lost their minds over it. It is kind of funny, right? Like I tell people all the time, it's amazing, we'll get like thousands of emails about this that literally is a do nothing, non-binding resolution. And yet a bill that will spend $20 million, we don't hear a single thing from anybody on.
Andy McNeill What's amazing what like stirs the pot for people. I don't know, Matt, what do you think?
Rep. Matt Duffield Ask me that again, Andy.
Andy McNeill So like Gulf of Mexico, Gulf of America, you got an opinion or not really?
Rep. Matt Duffield I mean, it's like Aaron said, it was a resolution. But it's interesting to see what people get fired up. And you know, some people get fighting mad over a resolution. And to his point, you'll have a bill that's going to use 20 million of our tax dollars and people don't bat an eye.
Andy McNeill It's interesting how something that's so important gets so little, but you can take something that really has not a lot of meaning, right, like almost no meaning, it's a resolution. And it's funny for me because we rename stuff all the time. So on one hand, like I don't care. But there is this thing about, do we want to create unnecessary confusion or like, are there some names that are sacrosanct.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington I would say the one thing that actually was really funny when I was doing the research on this was the fact that there is, I think it's the Gulf of California, but they call it the Sea of Cortez. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. I mean, if we're going to rename stuff, if we're having different names on here, let's keep it consistent.
And then, of course, actually it's a long list of different bodies of water that have different names. It was actually very enlightening for me to just learn that when I did this. But once again, it's like Google Maps, Apple Maps, they all say it now. To me, it seemed like no big deal. But, I had one person go, every school's going to have to throw out their textbooks. And I was like, are you serious? You really believe that?
They're like, well, they might do it. I'm like, if you have a superintendent that's going to throw out all their books over a non-binding resolution, I think that school board needs to look for a new superintendent.
Andy McNeill Matt, what do you think? We'll leave the final word with you, Matt.
Rep. Matt Duffield Okay, it was at the first of session, too, Aaron. So it had a lot more focus on it than otherwise it might have. You know, too, I remember you ran it towards the first of the session. So I think that played a factor as well. Also, Aaron, it's Friday, so I'm sure your campaign phone is lit up like mine. Andy, Aaron and I joke that every Friday we won't hear from a constituent one until Friday. And Friday, our phones will blow up. Especially like we were talking about, especially after 6 PM. We just joked about that.
Andy McNeill Yeah, they want to talk to you after hours.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington I don't mind it, but I told Matt it's so sad because they call you and it's like, I can't do anything for you until Monday because no one is there. And there have been some cases where someone's called me and we have been able to fix things over the weekend when someone's Medicaid gets cut off and their daughter needs their insulin. So we've been able do that a few times. But I tell people, please call me. Normal business hours is perfectly fine. I will pick up the phone.
Andy McNeill I'll tell you thank you and also happy Easter.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Thank you. Yeah, Happy Easter.
Andy McNeill And so we really appreciate you coming on to Free Arkansas. And again, you can go look on the different statistics on FreeArkansas.com. Matt, you want to close this out?
Rep. Matt Duffield Yeah, let me say this. Not only is Aaron Pilkington a state representative and a hard working guy, he's also a dad. And Aaron has three kids, right?
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yep. Three sons, yeah.
Rep. Matt Duffield His lovely wife, Emma, who's just a sweetheart. Behind every good legislator like Aaron, there's a good wife at home. So I definitely want to commend her for giving that support system as well. But anyway, thanks so much, Aaron, for coming on and hope you have a good weekend. And thank you so much for joining us on Free Arkansas this week.
Rep. Aaron Pilkington Yeah, happy to do it. Thanks for having me, guys.